Jason Assir, EnergyGigs' CEO, is joined by James Carnes, Workforce Developer and Apprenticeship Representative of the US Department of Labor, for an enlightening webinar exploring the critical role of apprenticeships in shaping the future of the energy sector. With the energy industry transforming rapidly, embracing sustainable energy sources and innovative technologies, the demand for skilled professionals in this field continues to grow. This webinar delves into how apprenticeships can help bridge the gap between traditional education and practical skills. Whether you are an energy company seeking to develop talent or an individual aspiring to create a career in energy, this session is for you.
Jason Assir: Well, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Jason here. I'm with EnergyGigs, and we're joined today by a guest. Our guest Speaker, James Carnes. He's the Workforce Development Leader for the Department of Labor. And Apprenticeship Representative. We're really excited to have James come and talk to us about apprenticeships in the United States and apprenticeships, more specifically, also in energy. And what he's seeing in his work with the Department of Labor. Real quick. What about energy gigs? Who are we, and what do we do? We're a talent platform that connects energy companies to talent over full-time pro hourly. And temp to perm projects. So if you're looking to find an expert in anything, from Gen. Geothermal to carbon capture to downstream. Capital project management, you know. Come, talk to us. We'll be glad to connect you to some amazing talented people out there that are that are consulting and looking for work.
So without further ado, I'd like to introduce James. James, thank you so much for joining us today. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, about your background, and and how you ended up getting into this work with apprenticeships at the Department of Labor.
James Carnes: Yes, Jason, thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is James Garnes. I'm a retired soldier. Number one, I grew up in construction with a family-owned construction company and fancied myself as an athlete. That didn't work out after several years of undergraduate joined the United States Army during one of those one of my assignments I was assigned as an instructor and training developer writer which tied into some of the work that I actually do now day to day. In addition, I also served a tour in the United States Army recruiting command. which also lend it to the skills that I use currently so spin forward 2 decades time to get out became a breakfast employment representative advocating for bedrooms employment with the Texas Workforce Commission 2 years after I left Texas Workforce Commission. In February 2,000. For my anniversary month I joined the United States Department of Labor as a workforce developer and apprenticeship Training Representative for Southeast Texas, and I've been here continuously since then, and worked on a number of projects ranging from energy to healthcare to aerospace. We're kind of all over the place it wasn't so much as the in depth knowledge of apprenticeship, initially, so much as the supporting skills to promote and develop apprenticeship. So that's what brings me here today. With you. I've been in the seat. sworn in officially for almost 20 years now.
Jason Assir: Not contemplating retirement just yet. No, that's what I mean. That's good. It seems like you're the right man for the job right now. Where apprenticeships are starting to to come back into and into swing, I guess you know, for at a high level what you know at a very basic level, on some you know what? What is an apprenticeship like? How how should we, as either future workers or companies that hire them like? How? How should we think of an apprenticeship?
James Carnes: Well, the first thing apprenticeship is employment. It is probably the single most important element of an apprenticeship program. So let's look at this for a minute. What is apprenticeship is an organized plan of work and instruction to gain full proficiency and a particular occupation. and we cover nearly every occupation in the nation. A registered apprenticeship is different than an apprenticeship. A de facto apprenticeship actually has standards and guides created and implemented by the United States Department of Labor. That is a big difference. There are credentials issued to the sponsoring employer or group. as well as credentials issued to the individual upon completion of their apprenticeship program. So the first thing to think about is employment, but employment, with a plan to bring you to full proficiency. And with that, and with that said on the employer's side. You're able to create a cohort of apprentices, and predict reasonably that at the end of the pipeline I will have whatever number of occupations or crafts that have fully proficient. Not at the end of a specified period. I'll the apprenticeships vary in length. They can be as short as one year for certain occupations. They can be as long as 5 for others. The requirements vary based on the occupation. A one of the things that you may think about is that apprenticeship is a way to build vacancies that other cannot. Otherwise, they failed through conventional recruiting means. The one of the things that we're looking at now we're facing now is a major split. Excuse me a a major entry increase in interest in registered apprenticeship in energy and renewable energy. In particular. one of the things, though we want to consider with energy is that, regardless of the source it must be discovered are manufactured has to be processed. and then it has to be distributed. So you may find yourself anywhere along those basic processes, whether it comes from solar energy, hydrogen, legacy sources of fossil fuel, and other things. Now, some cases are combined. For example, electricians will still continue to exist where the electricity comes from the sun. Whether it comes from hydrogen, they're just new techniques that are added to the training course for a particular electrician or other technicians. Heating, air conditioning, and ventilation, for instance, the same principles apply; they want to make them green. They're still technicians. They're just learning new techniques in most cases.
And so when we look at the discovery, we're looking at a family of occupations from scientific occupations to others, such as geologists and physicists. Then we could go as technicians related to those wind turbines, wind turbine installation technicians. So that kind of covers the discovery and manufacturing, and also the conventional fossil fuel occupations of the refinery operators and lab technicians, offshore exploration, and so forth.
So we look at the distribution. We still have high-voltage linemen. People call them various different titles, but they're for us for our purposes, their high voltage linemen. Those are the people who switch out transformers in storms and things like that and run wires to make sure that you have electricity in your home. or the people who are involved in the actual physical national pipeline that runs fossil fuel throughout the United States. And so there are a number of different areas that a person could enter an apprenticeship program at various junctures, and most of them have some have an apprenticeship track involved in the quite common pipefitters, linemen, electricians, the doers as well as the scientific in where biomedical research is being performed. We have some sponsors in the Freeport area. Not only are they involved in energy and petrochemical, but they actually are involved in the creation of medicines and other raw materials as a byproduct of producing energy.
So that is how vast the apprenticeship area or areas of employment could be. The trends right now, the hot topic is, of course, renewable energy. And we're seeing this in a number of areas where people are employing personnel to install and otherwise construct solar farms and cells and so forth. But again, these are not new occupations, so much as just being employed in a different manner. But you still have to construct a wind turbine. You still have to construct a solar farm.
Jason Assir: Intriguing, James. Well, thank you for that. It's such an interesting opportunity for workers to get into energy, to get into apprenticeships. I guess in your term, like in working in a space for the time that you have, are you seeing anything differently now, like with regard to energy, that maybe in the last 4 years that you haven't, that some changes to apprenticeships generally?
James Carnes: There has been increased interest in renewable energy tied to a lot of some national legislation that is afoot, and so in anticipation of that, several companies are contacting us to begin competing for work in those areas. The again, I'll reemphasize that it will involve construction of new infrastructure, everything from charging stations to wind turbines to tap into it. So, we will not necessarily see an increase in new occupations being created so much as a new demand and new roles. So that's what we're seeing in the future.
Jason Assir: No, that's great. I guess for the energy companies and the webinar guests that are listening right now that work for companies and maybe want to start up an apprenticeship program at their company, in a particular domain, what's the best process? How do they get started for an energy company?
James Carnes: There are two ways. We have, of course, our website of apprenticeship.gov, which has a portal which will allow you to indicate, yes, I have interest in finding out more about apprenticeship. In which time it will trigger a query, and it will eventually find its way to the local representative, and they'll contact you. Or if you have direct contact, as you should at the end of this particular presentation. You have direct contact with me via email, and I can give you specifics.
We're broken down regionally. We operate over 58 field offices throughout the United States. Some states are operating under the auspices of the Department of Labor but are managed by states. You'll see a term called SAA, State Apprenticeship Agency states. They're still under the oversight of the US Department of Labor. They comply with all federal law. This is simply they manage their apprenticeship system, and other states, you'll see a broken down is OA, States Office of Apprenticeship States. In those states, you deal directly with the United States Department of Labor or representatives such as myself. And the process will begin there.
At any rate, if you contact me or go to our website at apprenticeship.gov and express an interest in apprenticeship, you'll be contacted via email or whatever means that you prefer. I will. We are a fairly small organization. So we actually involve referrals where I'm actually talking to a colleague, to a person I know. And I would just make a virtual introduction and maybe sit in on the first call with you as I. If you're more comfortable with me as I introduce you to my colleague in California while Wyomings, open. But Washington or Georgia, or wherever your business needs occur. So that's basically how it happens.
Jason Assir: No, that's great. I? You know, I think, guess one question. I have and for any of the webinar guests that are attending, please feel free to ask some questions as as we go along. The floor is open, so to speak, to ask James any questions regarding apprenticeships. But you know, I guess recently, as far as I understand. On Monday, maybe there was a DOE some sort of funding notice or something for, for where money, more money, more funds would be allocated to workforce development is that, does that come into the apprenticeship program at all?
James Carnes: Or yes, it certainly does. There is a Jason. There's an a partnership between the Department of Energy and the Us. Department of Labor, but we provide support for any grant recipients who wish to pursue registration. Registration is relatively painless and pretty efficient. It's pretty fast in most cases. Provided that the sponsor of their apprenticeship program understands. Once they understand what they want to get, it is fairly quick. It's normally a learning curve to find out what they want. But while we're here. I'd like to point out 2 remarkable differences, even in Canada. as opposed to the United States and Western Europe. Places that you have most probably the most frequent contact registered apprenticeship are their national apprenticeship systems in Western Europe and in Canada. or part of the compulsory educational system.
In the United States. It is not. It is a completely free market meaning that it is based on our economy. Participation is completely voluntary. We're not an Enforcement agency at the office of apprenticeship. We are a consultative agency, meaning there are no fines levied on that type of thing. We don't do audits. We perform what are called reviews. The reviews are where you receive feedback on your program in areas that need improvement and where you're strong and where you're weak, but so what I'm getting is to the new job seeker. You will need to advertise if you are an employer. to say that I am taking applications in my program. Hmm.
Western Europe, a. A. An apprentice begins their apprenticeship in, basically, ninth grade. Okay? So those are some profound differences that we would need to consider when you're searching for an apprenticeship program. They, the second part to that is because they hire based on vacancies. You're using our tool, and you've located their apprenticeship program. But they may not be taking applications at that time. But you now have their contact information, and you can ask them. please. you know, let me know when you're taking applications again. They also have the ability to indicate that they're taking applications on the public website. With some accuracy. What do you need to prepare to be an apprentice? Preferably a high school diploma in Ged, but not necessarily. It just depends upon the craft to be an electrician. For instance, you, in most cases, must have high school algebra. What a lot of people don't understand is how complex some of the technical crafts are. Pipe fitting, for instance, involves trigonometry. So if you weren't big on figuring high school. That may not be the case, or at least it may be geometry. That may not be the course that you want to go into. But there may be. Other occupations in construction are related to energy that are very much lending to your aptitudes.
I would say that an individual approach towards the application process A before each company and for each individual. It is just that no 2 apprenticeship programs are the same. They could be identical even within the same companies. The different sites. They're peculiar things that are peculiar to that site. either due to local zoning or coding or other techniques that won't necessarily apply or travel to the next one. we're we have, several different types of apprenticeship programs and sponsors the earliest models, most common models. People often think of organized labor and organized labor only.
But the truth is, we're not just in support of organized labor. We register many companies as individual apprenticeship programs, sponsors not involved in organized labor as well. Delivery of instruction. And and we should look at this a little more granular. Remember, at the very beginning, we mentioned that instruction and a word plan that related instruction can be delivered through electronic media or combination electronic media. And in person. In many cases the instruction received can o be used towards directly towards credits towards earning a degree and typically an applied science degree in construction, science or some other area. So for a young person to think that they're entering this industry and is dead end not. The case is, as far as you want to go, that young man or woman who earns that applied science degree will likely become an estimator or some other project manager, or some other role, not just a solar installation, their entire career the other thing that we may look at when you set up and apprentice a program. It's a deliberate process. And we're addressing recruiting. the retention and predictability for your work force. Okay? And so there are more benefits to registered apprenticeship.gov. Which, if we have time at the end of this, I'll be happy to help navigate or give an overview of our website.
Jason Assir: No, that's fantastic. Well, we. So we do have a question about this: Compared to other countries in the world, what? How? How is this? US-based apprenticeship program? Different? And if not better. How does it compare to other countries? Sort of apprenticeship programs?
James Carnes: Well, obviously. we're quite effective. We produce a number of plumbers. Electricians you name it surgical techs using the apprenticeship approach training approach the comparison. You know, if you talk to the Europeans, the Germans will swear up and down that they have the best apprenticeship system in the world, and maybe for Germany. They do. It does not transfer to the United States. We've spent time in Switzerland and other places, and I actually lived extensively in Western Europe and had friends who were in their apprenticeship system. And the difference is in our system because it is a free market and demand based. The wages are higher because you are in demand. Okay, there are not depressed with a number of of social economic deductions from your pay of in the process. We talked about upward mobility. In America, apprenticeship is still there and goes beyond the apprenticeship program for those who distinguish themselves, which can occur in other social models like in Canada and Western Europe. Where there's more emphasis on, there's a lot of everybody has their place, whereas in the United States that free market and entrepreneurship is still there. Many apprentices enter initially as apprentices, and they work for full proficiency, and they gain experience. 10 years later they spent office, created their own company. I've heard that. Yeah. Okay, so that's not as easy to do in in some other some other countries. Not to mention. We're trying to work towards the press. We have an image issue. Okay? And have headed because there are register apprenticeship went through. A Renaissance began probably about 20 years ago, when the methodologies that have been used effectively all these years in construction and manufacturing began. We began to export to other industries. and you know we had some business starts, but is working quite well now, especially in education and healthcare. And we're we're speaking of apprenticeship. Yeah, everyone should take in the frame of mind that we're speaking of a methodology. Yeah. it's not gonna be a semi-truck. Pull up to your house or your factory one day, and I'll unload by apprenticeship. No, it's nothing like that right. It's a shift of paradigms. and you follow the plan. And there's constant feedback between that new apprentice or employee with the employer or a mentor who is ensuring that they're not just receiving theoretical instruction, but they're actually practising it on the job. And there are so many things that cannot be captured. Through theory alone.
Jason Assir: No, that's that's great. We do have one other question. Our apprenticeships. Are people in mid-career status eligible for apprenticeships? And does that process look any differently for someone who's maybe in career transition?
James Carnes: Not at all, and certainly is encouraged the minimum age. In most of our documentation. You'll see at age 16, and that is a good fit for certain occupations that don't involve what is considered hazardous work or equipment. However, generally speaking, 18 would be the age of full employment and the ability to enter a wide range of occupations. So let's spin forward to the career changer. At 40, I was one. I retired from the United States Army at 39 or so, and reinvented myself now into a human resources profession based on prior experience and seeing based on prior experience, because oftentimes by now that mid career worker does have transferable skills that he or she may receive advance, credit and experience. For what they do know. and while they're learning what they don't know to create a fully proficient worker at the end. so It is all a lim, the only limitations there would be physical ability. And we do it. We address, you know, the ADA and other aspects of apprenticeship, and if it's something that a reasonable accommodation can't be made. They are. But in many cases, it is impractical on the part of the employer to make accommodations. If you're involved in energy, related occupation where you're only involved in monitoring. Flow boards inside a refinery. Your mobility might not be as crucial of as it would be if you were havin to climb smokestacks as a boiler maker. Yeah, for instance, and all of this falls under energy. renewable energy. Obviously a person whose mobility impaired won't be climbing wind turbines. Yeah. that's right. But. on on the other hand, they may very well be in a position to work as a machinist or other areas, threading pipe that carries that energy, that energy producing material, be it steam. hydrogen. or fuels, and so forth. So again, individual application, individual publications per occupation.
Jason Assir: No, that's that's fantastic. Well, I know we're we're kind of getting. We're we're actually at time. But II, James, if you have a little bit more time, we can show the site. And we can. You know, candidates, people can look at the the site.
James Carnes: Certainly, I'd like to go ahead and pull that up right now, Jason, so that everyone can be familiar with apprenticeship.gov. And be able to seek additional information.
Jason Assir: Do you have it up already, or do, are you able to see it, or my zoom?
James Carnes: I am. Yes, I see it, sure. Do. Okay, so it will go back to home at the very top. Friendship, USA. And across the top, you can see, depending upon which category you would find yourself honored. That's where the information is directed towards. There's also a spot for employers. If we press the employer. Tab, please. And there is a spot to express interest in starting an apprenticeship program. That is, yeah, that one. But again, if you already have contact. You don't need that button. you, or if you have my contact information, you won't need that button. for educators or any other stakeholders. There's a great spot there to explain the role and the synthesis between the 2, the general resources, all sorts of stuff there showing the interplay between the Federal Government and the State and your Local Workforce Board and supporting statistics and other stuff. For instance, you see National Youth Apprenticeship Week. We're working on that right now to get the word out to that category up there career seekers. We're working on that to have an event in May, and Jason, I'll talk to you about that more offline after this talks about becoming an apprentice. But basically, the most important thing you need to have is availability and a good attitude that goes a long way. It really does availability and a good attitude. Now, construction is a nomadic type of occupation. For instance. So in many cases, transportation independent transportation is key getting there. If you're a person who's easily queasy or something, maybe health care isn't something that you want to go towards. However, it and energy even have a interrelation in particular, as a I is developed as we're moving down that road. Another area that is a very hot occupation is mechatronics. These are basically the maintenance people who make all things in a factory operation, refinery or whatnot operate. It is where the motherboard meets the mechanical. Well, that's cool. Yeah. That occupation is a kind of mixture. And, as you can see, Jason is pulling up. You're able to drill down to your location. But there are a number of things here. A number of occupations throughout the United States. What I want you to consider is a of basically. it has to be a vacancy. A vacancy has to exist. The contact information is on there. And again, if you're if you're a job seeker, be prepared. Be patient. Because some occupations may have a higher demand than others. We've talked about construction and other areas primarily focused on energy today. And obviously, there's high demand for people in the energy sector. But I will tell you that the majority of it is the construction and repair of infrastructure. To get the energy to where it needs to be or to be a process or synthesize. So those you could apply. And possibly there's a vacancy and be employed in a week.
Jason Assir: Yeah, I think that parallels a lot of what we've seen to James in terms of, you know, we're seeing desires for people that are project managers like capital projects.
James Carnes: But if you drill down into that. There are people that need to know how to do it. Welding that needed, you know, need job, site, safety. All these things of getting these big sort of refineries or facilities up and running or converting old facilities, and that all requires like a lot of it requires, like people that are crafts right, like people that know how to do skilled labor, right or exactly, and it all supports the energy sector. And sometimes it's not a large company. It may be the mid to smaller contractors. Who are involved in this as well. I tried to avoid using any specific company entities, but you can kind of fill in the blanks and figure out XYZ. Refinery is that they stick to their core business. But there may be other things that are related, like the maintenance of that facility being outsourced to a contractor, and their job is to come in and retrofit and refit those refineries that you talked about in what they call turnarounds, and so forth. In the when and other areas again, contractors may come in and actually wreck the turbines and pull maintenance owned them. But the turbines themselves are owned by XYZ. Energy. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a whole ecosystem of of occupations that that involve the entire energy of system in itself. There are apprenticeships for construction. Managers project managers, safety managers, but most of those people come out of the initial construction crafts and then move into other possessions.
Jason Assir: No, that's well, that's fantastic. Well, James, I'd like to keep going, but I think we're we're at time, and and I thank you for your your sharing, your time and your wisdom and your experience of you know, doing the work that you've done. You have been doing and still doing for anyone who's interested in learning more about you know how to get involved with that apprenticeship, either as an apprentice themselves or as a company looking to set up an apprenticeship program. We're going to be sending the show notes and James's contact information. So you could reach out directly to him. And yeah, we really thank you again, James, for sharing your time and insight, and thank you for the attendees that that came and ask questions. And I'd like to stay in touch, James. maybe. Have you back on later in the year, if possible?
James Carnes: Certainly, Jason, and thank you. Everyone for attending. And Jason, you're now on the safe senders list. We could communicate anytime, my friend.
